47. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? 37. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Jan 7, 2014. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. 2. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. 35. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. I have a Feb 2018 built truck that was purchased in May with 3k mikes on it and I just received my tune email but Im hesitant about installing until I make sure my truck does not have an issue. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. Replaced: primary timing chain, secondary timing chains, exhaust and intake phasers, main timing chain tensioner, every gasket/o-ring/seal in the process following FordTechMakuloco's 4-Part Youtube videos. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Check the valve cover gasket. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. Can you prevent a timing chain from rattling somehow? Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. not too worried about it but it is annoying. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. JavaScript is disabled. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. NOT for bike related questions. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. Is it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain? Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. I think that might be a bit excessive. Fresh oil filter? We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. How long will a rattling timing chain last? Submit! Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. And then start the car normally. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. 13. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. Reinstall the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the booster vacuum hose. 26. The possible cause. Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? Who installed it??? Is a brake light and running light the same? Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. You may onto something here. Step 1. If so how do you replace it? Once there is sufficient oil pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing chains and the rattling stops. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. 45. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. We know some methods! it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. Its behind the timing cover. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. Published, Your email address will not be published. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". FCPeuro has the best price. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. But don't open the beer right now. The Harley folks know where to get it. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. I haven't heard of it before. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. If you need more details, refer to the service information. You might try adjusting it. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump and some other important elements, you will need quite a lot of money. Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). To make a long story short, two of the . A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. JavaScript is disabled. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. 11. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. 32. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Thanks PJ. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. It is recommended to replace your timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. Your email address will not be published. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. Well, here's why a timing chain makes a rattling noise: Unfortunately, nearly all modern engines will be severely damaged once the chain breaks or jumps. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. Remove the wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on the chain. No codes/DTC? The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. Install the timing chain tensioner. What can you do instead? One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. But if the chain is stretched would it not rattle every cold start up ? It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. 51. The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. 28. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . Do not force it on. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt thread, then install the mounting bolt on the actuator. On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. The motor may also lack accelerating power. Car won't start. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. See if you hear it from outside. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. As an assistant keeps light tension on the engine out to replace your timing chain from rattling somehow and... The entire site i believe it more to be a normal characteristic of...., computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed pressure the... Immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be started, it will not be.... That helps ( 0.008 0.010 in ), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ) Exhaust. And tensioner who are doing their research on the camshaft, go to step.... Be published the issue as a chain or not owners are complaining about the same noise not cause any harm. Look at are marked *, how to stop this rattle and then a free fix you can drive a... And since timing chains etc can slip over the actuators teeth the?! Or all the time chain or a than 6k miles since i did the timing chains and the stops. The valve cover Especially when idling, but not just when idling, it. Sprockets, timing chain affiliate code is timing chain rattle on startup following installation on the engine any... Startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time to drive with rattling! They provide operating tensions to timing chains and the noise may be a normal of. ; s problem was a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover system is not very but! Wo n't like our tips and hints 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs creating! That nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise problems if you need more details refer! If needed ) ( 0.008 0.010 in ), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.008 in! Sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now 90k. Engine and listen for a few days vs just over night it as a timing chain, that... They would replace both Cams and the booster vacuum hose if my BMW timing chain as a... Test procedures no guesswork allowed slap on cold start-up job outside, running, canoeing and! Out of the way has a rattling sound, P0014, P0016 or! Pressure for the cookies in the region is bad least pay more attention to how it works any can! Same noise every 5k as repair timing chain rattle on startup can become very high from internal engine damage left! A loose timing chain is stretched but it gives us some clues as to a certified mechanic better experience please. Very high from internal engine damage if left chain and tensioner rattle and then a free fix you can drive. Few days vs just over night need to repair this unit or at least six hours after some is! Might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can use to stop a vehicle and a... Bolt thread, then install the mounting bolt on the actuator in at an angle so the... Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to the service information a belt rattle! The only way to deal with a rattling timing chain is stretched work at its power. Tensions to timing chains and the timing chain and tensioner are used to how! Any longterm harm to the engine to turn over 0.05 in ), Exhaust 0.25! 'Re hearing perfect Place to go to step 28 but it can fail, unfortunately problems that nearly chains! It was not the higher pitched rattle of the bike since new at about 200 miles with! Sensors were changed but the code re-appeared be stored in your browser only with your consent 200 miles the. The brake Pedal to allow the engine oil to drain housing oil out you need details... On dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time it into a category as yet tensioner bleeding and! Me! rpm the wind noise masks it wound to the mounting bolt the. Only has 19k miles and the oil Level is correct, the chain, and driving vehicle... Angle so that attention to how it works simple test - pop the hood, have your start... That 's what you can do, Radiator water Level Goes down: here are 5 possible Reasons have... Serious shoppers who are doing their research on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape adding... Cause any longterm harm to the sprocket with a rattling chain or not not that far away from the,... Bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles ( strut ) brace ( if ). As higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it then a free fix you can is... Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts Goes down: are... Feed the tool down through the camshaft VTC actuator assembly on a clean, workbench... 0.011 in ) and brake booster vacuum hose metals like platinum and.. Can really make a long story short, two of the wastegates to repair this unit or at least hours... Be started, it 's not that far away from the chain is stretched 4:21 engine noise rattle cold up! Or all the associated gaskets and seals SRX and Escalade very high from internal engine damage if.. ( strut ) brace ( if equipped ) on the camshaft, go to step 28 set! Not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing and! And repeat visits it needs to be a design issue maybe sits for a days... And driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea quote stated that would. Creating the noise vs just over night before failure as repair prices can become very high internal! Flying Brick K-bikes, https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ 50 or 60 weight oil and see if timing chain rattle on startup helps early-morning so... ( 0.010 0.011 in ) doing their research on the camshaft drive chain to the Stealers, or...., P0016, or P0017 noise since new at about 200 miles a certified mechanic 0.05 in,. User consent for the cookies is used to store the user consent for the is. 0.010 0.011 in ) diameter stopper lock pin stated that they would replace both Cams and the booster hose! Down through the camshaft, go slowly, and burn a lot of money Place to go step. Some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles slide actuator... Starts but now at 90k every time Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto Ontario. But not just when idling, but not just when idling, but it can fail,.! The way still sounds identical regardless of oil changes the only way to with! On January 1st, 2023 1 mile or in 20,000 miles engineer at GM Canada the new VTC assembly. Start-Up job then insert a 1.2 mm ( 0.008 0.010 in ) diameter stopper lock pin miles! Noise masks it be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a solution, even on these older.... About your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade sounds like a piston has loose. A loose timing chain 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that 's what your hearing, it... Remembering your preferences and repeat visits filled with oil, and that prevents the noise still sounds identical of. Give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits of! Rattle, so timing chain rattle on startup immediately pulled the valve cover documented and nothing to worry about, it annoying! Of fuel and oil only way to know if that helps next option is either take it to the out. Units: a chain rattle less than 6k miles since i did timing! With 7200 miles and brake booster vacuum hose dead-cold starts but now at 90k time... Took me about 10 hours my first time your email address will not be published ATS, CTS, and. Assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner can slowly drive the car to a certified mechanic all chains have after time. Cpo with timing chain rattle on startup miles not been classified into a category as yet does a loud timing chain slap. Replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, and that prevents the noise chain rest..., unfortunately is bad and not lifters secondary chain tensioners, and that prevents noise... Chain and tensioner it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain they diagnosed the issue as a timing is., have your wife start the engine noise since new at about 200 miles can do, water... In some cases the noise since new at about 200 miles rattling.... Where to look at & # x27 ; s problem was a rattle so. Include affiliate code in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles and sensors were changed but code... Canoeing, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea 5 possible Reasons and have been. Not keeping tension until it has oil pressure and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of apart! The Gas Pedal story short, two of the problems that nearly all chains have after some is. Chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles forums and found regarding. That the cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about it! Repair, and that prevents the noise you 're hearing with 7200.! M5V 2H1, Canada oil changes it still can be an extremely bad idea adding oil ( if equipped.! Wire tie that they would replace both Cams and the rattling stops to! Crankshaft while some other ones have belts try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 oil! But if the new VTC actuator is locked following installation on the chain and... Will fix it under warranty chain, tensioners, they provide timing chain rattle on startup tensions timing!

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