We won the Battle of Britain independently of the US but how long the commonwealth would have held out could be debatable. I would and have felt safe with one. To say that the 9mm Luger has been a success would be a severe understatement. They struggled with .357 and .45. At the time of this writing, there are several good duty holsters for the 4 inch, but almost none for the 5. 230 grain .45 +p at 950fps is moving at least as fast as the 9mm subsonic 147 grain round. For the United Kingdom, after Dunkirk, the UK lost basically everything. Wish you had more ammo brands like in the 45 acp test you did. I take my Colt Gold Cup in .45ACP any day over a typical 9mm pistol. Also, in a self-defense situation outside of your home, theres a higher likelihood that you wont be firing your gun at close range like in a home-defense scenario. Does it create better expansion or significant penetration? However, I have to admit youre way ahead of us with the second amendment! In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. From Firearm Wiki: The Internet Gun Encyclopedia, Velocity by Barrel Length of Various Calibers, Firearms Chambered in 9mm (Palmetto State Armory), https://firearmwiki.com/index.php?title=9mm_Velocity_by_Barrel_Length&oldid=1702, About Firearm Wiki: The Internet Gun Encyclopedia. Case closed. Just a thought. You need fewer rounds to do the job so you dont get excessive force charge , so that rules out the capacity as being a decision factor in the debate . Well then YOU become the weapon. Also designated the 9mm Luger by SAAMI, and 9mm Luger by the CIP. by the FBI, the 9mm was preferred in the field because of the following: LEOs have a 20% to 30% accuracy rate in shootouts, so magazine capacity is important. Less recoil making for more accurate follow up shots is a huge advantage in a high stress defense situation. I am beginning to practice with the 9 mm more. Plus, I think the just plain weight of the 45 carries more "oomph". 1. The __qca cookie is associated with Quantcast. A .357 magnum round can have similar effects. The same size 9mm semi auto usually holds more rounds (often 15+1) than a 45. I also read several years ago about a young lad at home on his own, who had essentially been tasked with defending the home if anyone tried to break in. Yea! Velocity (FPS) Energy (ft/lb) 1135. I get that, but as you said, the same tech is applied to .45 and now the expanded .45 is much larger than the expanded 9mmso 45 still beats 9 by a wide margin (size wise), if they both expand. Last time I saw the statistics on it, most domestic self defense gun fights occur in 6 or less feet. You follow the directions on the can. Obviously, the increased velocity will impact terminal ballistic performance. At a 30% hit rate during actual combat (due to adrenaline and urgency of quickness) add in a fall rate like no other (45) and it drops to 20%. They say those things from a position of authority and impressionable young guys grow up and repeat them decades later. I myself started out carrying a 22.lr handgun because it was what I shot since I was a kid. So therefore if you had a smallish gun with 6+1, you'd be covered. If they've conducted studies and have a general opinion the 9mm is better for fire fights in the field, that is a very strong point in favor the the 9mm. Muzzle velocity, however, is not always a fair comparison, as different projectiles have different purposes and downrange performance. The cookie is set by crwdcntrl.net to collect statistical data such as the number of visits, average time spent on site, and what pages have been loaded, for targeted advertising. This will likely require a head shot. The cartridge is, without a doubt, the most . The purpose of gun ownership in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny. My dream gun has always been a 1911 in 45 cal but after watching the video I'm on the fence again. Maybe NOT, POF 5PK MP5 The Budget Reverse-Stretch Semi Auto from Pakistan, Ammo InStock: PMC Bronze 223 Rem 55 Grain FMJ Ammo 1000 Rounds $397.00 FREE S&H, Survival Deal: Thyrosafe Potassium Radioactive Iodide Tablets $21.95 FREE S&H, Gun Deals: Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol 12 Gauge Shotgun $949.00 FREE S&H, Brownells Coupon Codes www.brownells.com Updated Monthly. I dont have a problem with the recoil of any of the calibers so thats not an issue for me. I have found in my many years and many hundreds of thousands of rounds spent that longer barrels arent always more accurate or faster given a set of loads or controls. I can only say this: When your life - and the lives you protect - depend on 18 ready available bullets, youre going to wish for more. I've finally finished up college and paid off my loans, and I'm ready to get back to the range at least weekly to improve my accuracy now that my budget allows. And by the way,the famous FBI shootout was ended by one well placed round from a frickin 38special!!! Conversely, the 9mm spits out a 115- and 147-grain bullet anywhere around 1,000 to 1,300 fps at the muzzle, with energy ranging from 294 to 495 at the muzzle. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". A big, fat, 230 grain hollow point at that speed will drop the MF faster than a 9mm any day of the week.. My state has a 10 round limit. Another difference relates to global use. Good stopping power and less likely to penetrate walls and hit a bystander. I may be considered old and not moving with the new trends, and all is good and dandy with the 9 mm and all the new ammo development, but if the .45 was good to stop the japs and the Krouts, in my book it is good to stop anyone who wants to harm me or my family. I bought a 9mm because during this last ammo shortage my ammo was hard to find but I could get the 9mm no problem. Today, modern incarnations of his cartridge significantly exceed that limit. Knock down power is about energy transfer. Case: Brass. Velocity and barrel length data for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on. IRead more . They had a narcotic in them to keep them advancing until they expired. The debate over the 9mm and .45 ACP is one of the most heated conversations in the firearms community. When I'm in the woods I use .45 cast. Based on tests of 12 hollowpoints, the 9mm pistol and the 9mm carbine produced the same average estimated wound ballistics. Hollowpoint should (mostly) negate over penetration. When you actually test the loads on living breathing targets (like the Strasbourg test) , that (to me) is the best indicator. Despite all the impressive "science" deployed to reinforce the assertion that higher speed projectiles are more capable of inflicting the deep penetration and impact-effect required to reliably anchor heavy game, one finds that these assertions simply do not withstand common sense, repeatable penetration testing. Practice both bullseye and tactical shooting skills. I freeze. But if the FBI and cops have reverted to 9mm, I'm comfortable with it too. But my favorate is 45acp. I still posses a .45 among my various handguns, and I still enjoy shooting with it. While it cannot be argued that Americans did not single-handedly win the war or that we contributed the most warfighters or took the most losses, it is also safe to say that without American intervention it is entirely probable that the UK would have fallen and the USSR would not have been able to push the Germans back. Its not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s. Feel free to cite your real world experience that you keep vaguely referring to. 1100 fps . We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. That's the amount of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for self-defense. Thanks! The 9mm had a very distinct and predictable step in every load tested. As for the freeze, it's what happens in a situation where the best outcome is you going to the hospital. Wouldn't that make the.45 leap farther ahead again, in terms of "better"? Adam and Eve passed on the nature of sin (spiritual death) to the whole human race (see Romans 5:12-21), which is why we MUST be "born again of the spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God" (see John 3:3). Bull!! However, police officers can enhance the effectiveness of the 9mm by careful bullet selection. I prefer the .40 S&W. To think you need 15+1 is just imo foolish. What ends an engagement is being able to walk away from it. Which he won't like. 9mm rarely reaches major (165PF) unless specially loaded and unsafe if you ask me. For me, it's an SR1911, an old 4x4 Toyota with a stick, and a Pedulla my choices on all 3 are exactly the same i thought that was oddly coincidental since all 3 are not the most common choices. .45 is for nostalgia crazed red necks that can't let go of the past. Doesnt get any simpler than that. Bear in mind that these numbers vary by manufacturer. The FPS isn't about dodging the bullet, that would be ridiculous, as you pointed out. Hi Matthew. In that case consider a 10mm or .357 magnum (better get a .44 magnum) depending on how big the bears are. The muzzle is the end of a gun's barrel. If they are still coming you have to be able to keep shooting. The only advantage the mode 59 has is the rear sight to adjustable for both windage and elevation . Yeah its not close because its way higher moron. 540 ft lb was the highest recorded muzzle energy for the 9mm in their testing. I own both. Im a little bit late to the party, but thanks for this. 9mm: having more range, muzzle velocity, more accuracy(depending on the professionalism of the shooter), less recoil, a smaller cal(meaning the gun will have more capacity) and more penetration(Depending on the grain). Few gun owners will say that there is too much muzzle velocity, but there is one potential disadvantage: more recoil. I do have a CZ 75 and a couple of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally. The 9mm is easier to conceal but when I am on my Harley I like to carry the 45. A .45 is a solid push in you hand. So instead of boasting about something that never happened, recognize actual achievements like the almost unimaginable amount of vehicles weapons ammunition & food that we produced & ferried across the Atlantic to Pacific support and supply all of the Allies and our seemingly miraculous (midway) battles w/ Imperial Japan. Muzzle velocity is generally stated in feet per second, or fps. However, many European brands are listed in meters per second, which is abbreviated as either mps or m/s. For consistency, well use fps for the rest of this article like the red-blooded Americans we happen to be! The U.S. Army eventually switched over to theSig Sauer P320but theyre still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. All the rest, including +p loads, came in under that number. Hum. Some has been published here and I am working on other barrel length projects. 2. Everyone wants to put down the 45 and take up the 9 because they wont take the time and energy to get proficient with the 45, and if you are too weak or candy a## you never will master the 45. Its a good compromise between the 9 and the 45. Of course they would have already wiped us out so that's not really an issue. The best advice when employing these rounds in a true self defense situation is a follows: "Apply judiciously and generously until the threat has stopped". Both in MY OPINION have similar kick to them. Velocity / Muzzle Energy Test Results. and 45LC with one shot kills, both head shots. I am pretty much in agreement with the author, GET BOTH! Certainly this is easy to understand with the .44 Magnum because it's increased velocity and mass produces essentially twice that of 9mm, but you can't say that about the other calibers. If I want range and penetration, I'll grab one of my rifles. Let me know in the comments below! Now, I can see all kinds of comments coming from that one, from 'good idea' to 'that's a terrible idea'. Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched. There really isnt any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The situation is now dissolved without any bystanders in the background getting injured. Either way, the 9mm and the .45 ACP both pack a strong enough punch to neutralize any threat. Although higher velocity projectiles always generate more kinetic energy they clearly do not produce deeper penetration, and when the velocities reach the levels common to today's magnums, the increases in velocity result in significantly reduced penetration. I have them all. My experience has led me to the same conclusion. Theyve got lots of data on many calibers. If you are going to go through all the trouble to defend yourself and/ or others you might as well knock the bad guy(s) down - and take their soul at the same time. Its such a pathetic argument. They're comparable. Even at 7-8" barrel, the additional length of a suppressor would still allow the pistol or SBR to remain more compact than a 16" barrel. "Subsonic is slow for a bullet" lol. The true stopping power goes to the 45 acp (I.e. TB. lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. It is therefore not only the most popular handgun cartridge in America, but very likely the most popular cartridge period. Having said that, here is something to consider. A 9mm will sting ya but a 45 will break your ribs. Just my two cents. This would most likely result in you firing at the assailant in a less accurate fashion as well as possibly harming others. The only good news is that those gunfights are extremely rare. 45 ACP is better than nothing for sure , but 9mm is a superior cartridge. or 38 & 45 both. When a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not drop as quickly. Firing the 9mm at the range was fun, then I fired the .45had to peel the smile off of my face. After examining the gunshot wounds, the study ranked accuracy as follows for chest and head shots: .380 ACP (76%), 9mm (74%), .40 S&W (76%), .357 SIG (81%), .45 ACP (85%), and .44 Magnum (88%) (there was no information on 10mm). My 2 primary guns are a Canik TP9SA 19 shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum. I know pros miss under stress. Saying Islamic Terrorist attacks were really just another "gun violence incident" is a vile misrepresentation of reality. Instagram But, had I not experienced it, I never would have believed it would happen to me. I have them all. I'm building a couple of .45s now. the us army knew that in ww1 when they adopted the john browning designed 1911 springfield after extensive testing of both. Just keep pulling the trigger. I have a 10mm I use with handloads for pig hunting. Go ahead, cite your experience. When it happens your mind will likely go blank. Also the title of the article seems to contradict his conclusion that the extremes are seperated by a mere 10%. The law enforcement and military need that exact type of round and the 9mm is the perfect gun for those situations. This is America, not the UK. I LIKE them all. Interesting discussion thanks for the insight and thoughts. with your statement 9mm has less recoil. My preference is for the .45 (partly due to the fact that though I've fired a 9mm, I don't own one but mainly through greater familiarity with the .45 & having a decent stock of ammunition for same) but I don't think a person would go wrong with the 9mm & for that matter (even though it wasn't included in the comparison) the .38. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Hah "settled". So much quicker to re-aim, quicker to re-fire and hence more accurate. Its not about hitting something or someone behind the assailant, it's about hitting something through the wall and the garden fence behind the assailant. shoot it with a hot 45acp and it will tear a huge ragged hole and dang near clothsline out the hanging rope. As for when you spray, I'll leave that for others with more experience. But the 45 does outperform the 9mm realistically. Really? I (thankfully) also have an overactive amygdala response that kicks in to take over. A lighter round traveling faster than a heavy round, if the difference is substantial enough, will carry similar energy. They are extremely different. Go home safe. Impressive. Muzzle velocity is the speed of the bullet as once it leaves the barrel. Just get both calibers. (btw; I cast, coat and load 40, 41 & 45 Colt). I split the difference, .357 Sig gives you the same number of rounds per mag as the .40 but with the ballistics of a .357 magnum. 26+1 rounds of 45 in a 5 pound package with little to no recoil? Spray and pray LOL. The damage is the same and no 2 wound channels end up being the same on 45 or 9mm. What seemed like moments after making my calls to get .45, I was again on the line with several of the same fine companies to acquire some 9mm. Youll hear a lot of people say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its capacity. Wrong, you change the angle. IMHO (other than good social time discussions about guns and fishing tackle) forget the caliber wars. So, why should we expect that the USA is any different ? Done talking with someone who refuses to educate themselves. Advancements in modern defensive ammo technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. Great and very useful data: I would however like to see this same test done with the common barrel length of AR-9 and other like P.C.C.s and 9mm platforms chambered in 9mm. If so, another one which should lead to enough blood pressure drop to lose consciousness. Now I am a range officer and shoot concealed carry and IDPA style matches regularly. I have used both and much prefer the 9mm to a .45 ACP. I went with the 45 Smith&Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me. But this is my decision. Itll help keep you consistent and on-target. The 45 has been used by the military FAR longer than 9mm and the 9's are used because they are cheaper, more available and have easier recoils. Going to the store I take my 9 with 124 gr hst. He bought 'bigger is better' and eventually converted down to 9mm. Its not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s. Maybe alternate .45 hollow point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator (best of both worlds). The marines and FBI went to the 9 so women could qualify because only 1 in 10 can with a 45. though they cant come out and say so. The .380 is obviously light and slow and has the least penetration. A couple of things: 1. 332. . I knew folks who carried small .22LR automatics (Beretta etc) or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN. Whatever floats your boat. Since most self defense situations are at close range and I mean really close range there is no need for lots of bullets. The report indicated that the new powders and more advanced bullet designs used in current 9mm defensive loads allowed for the caliber to deliver almost similar performance to other calibers, like the .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. Because out of all my handguns, this is the one I'm most accurate with. As you can see with .357 SIG, which has greater velocity and mass than .45 ACP, it still penetrates less. I say different tools for different tasks. Youll do well to pick heavier bullet weights that convey a, The Latin in the 9mms full name is short for. A 124 grain plus P will not start dropping velocity until somewhere over 16 inches of barrel. Your statement is factually in error. Did you know Eve was not the first woman? We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. Enough with the clownery. Take all this with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert. Whereas in .45, fully half of the rounds made 500 ft lb or more in a 6" barrel, and one round made better than 600 ft lb Now to the .45 issue: one patient was shot in the back of the leg with a .45 hydro shock round mid way up the leg which lodged in the back of the knee. Capacity is not as huge a deal as you make it out to be, you tried to compare police shootings to civilian ones. For pure destructive power there's no contestnone. Fair & balanced article. A bonus is that you can use higher capacity magazines (9mmP & 45ACP) in both Glocks ;) anything extra and your In a 6 feet or less fire fight, if I have not subdued my attacker in 7 rounds. Nurses in some states and in some situations and doctors are the only ones that can. I'm removing that link since it looks like it was redirected. They are equally comfortable to carry and to shoot. 9mm vs. .45. A 40 will fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure. These are FBI statistics. 24 is the SAAMI (industry) standard despite the fact that most .223 ammo is probably fired from an 18 AR-15 barrel. The point is that 9mm is now sufficient to stop most attackers with 1 shot, while also having the advantage of increased capacity and reduced recoil. 250 plus opinions here and counting but for once I'd say they're not like A holeseveryone has one yet none stink. This anonymous data helps us to better understand users' needs and customize the website accordingly. When I really want to do some damage my S&W Govt. In the debate of 9mm vs 45ACP, I choose 357 magnum and 10mm. .45 ACP and 10mm, both being slower heavier bullets than .357 SIG have greater penetration. My preference is 9mm because I know how I'll respond. that is much easier to deal with. Luger designed his original 9mm to be lethal at 50 meters. At 3-8 yards distance, which is the most likely scenario I would find myself in need to draw, if God forbid the situation arises, aiming would be instinctive and firing would be done with one hand. I was one of those folks in the military in the 80's that had a 45 side-arm, so used to it. I used .45 ACP and full load .44 Mag in competition. With half coming in under 400 ft lb. It was also made clear that the almost same effectiveness of 9mm compared to .40 S&W and .45 ACP was due to the high quality of 9mm ammunition available.

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